Better Lineup, NYY or BOS?

[A.E]

<table border="1" cellspacing="10">
<tr>
<td><img src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/teams/1/80x60/bos2.gif"></td>
<td><img src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/teams/20080123/80x60/nyy.gif"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1. Dustin Pedroia</td>
<td>1. Brett Gardner</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>2. Carl Crawford</td>
<td>2. Derek Jeter</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>3. Kevin Youkilis</td>
<td>3. Mark Texeira</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>4. Adrian Gonzalez</td>
<td>4. Alex Rodriguez</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>5. David Ortiz</td>
<td>5. Robinson Cano</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6. Jed Lowrie</td>
<td>6. Jorge Posada</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>7. JD Drew</td>
<td>7. Nick Swisher</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>8. Varitek/Saltalamacchia</td>
<td>8. Curtis Granderson</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>9. Jacoby Ellsbury</td>
<td>9. Cervelli/Montero</td>
</tr>
</table>
First off...let's not jump too much on the Red Sox' nuts and make an impulse choice based on what's happened in the last 48 hours of baseball. Crawford and A-Gon bolster Boston but let's not forget that the Yankees still have the most dangerous 3, 4 combination in all of baseball. <p>
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Second, don't be a tool and just look at this as a player vs. player standpoint. Everyone try to look the least bit creative and intelligent when answering this question. <p>
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No, I'm not trying to sway anyone...just looking for some quality answers here. I am honestly still pondering my own answer to this question right now. I'll answer when I come to a conclusion.

 

[Giantmetfan07]

im not even gonna provide an answer yet, because i'm undecided and probably will be for a while -- so I'll just start off the discussion.


I think Crawford would fit well as the leadoff hitter. With that speed and being a .300 hitter, getting on base and swiping 2nd to lead off the 1st inning is better, in my opinion. Also, I believe Ortiz is usually 5th with Youkilis batting 3rd, but im not 100% sure of that.

Red Sox have the advantage in speed, without a doubt. I think that speed has been underrated these past few years and is starting to become recognized as a dangerous tool.

 

[A.E]

Crawford could be a great leadoff man, Pedroia is better suited to bat 2, but like I said...he doesn't like to be the leadoff hitter.

Gary Shelton: As for batting leadoff?

Crawford: "I just thought I (stank) at it, to be honest with you," Crawford says. "Lou (Piniella) put me second. Maybe I could have gotten better at it, but I just wasn't comfortable. It didn't have anything to do with stats. I just don't think I'm a good leadoff hitter."

-St. Petersburg Times

Good catch on the error I made in the batting order. This isn't 2003 and David Ortiz is no #3 hitter. [Edit coming] Another potential change I've thought about making is taking out Scutaro and inserting Lowrie. I saw Buster Olney has Lowrie projected to start.

Lastly, honestly GMF...Pedroia, Crawford, Ellsbury have a ton of speed but so do Gardner, Granderson, and Cano. Slowly building my argument about how Yanks can match the Red Sox' speed and still has the better power hitters.

 

[VC15]

I'm not sure on this one.

Crawford doesn't want to bat lead-off, and I'm not sold on Pedroia flourishing as the lead-off man.
If Jeter has another year like 2009, I'd say that the number two spot is a wash.
Teixeira is still better than Youkilis (not by much).
I believe that A-Rod has a few more 30/100 seasons left in him. Gonzalez could struggle early on in his return to the AL.
Cano was an MVP candidate last year. Who knows how much Ortiz has left in the tank?

I'll post the rest later.

 

[Giantmetfan07]

Crawford could be a great leadoff man, Pedroia is better suited to bat 2, but like I said...he doesn't like to be the leadoff hitter.



Good catch on the error I made in the batting order. This isn't 2003 and David Ortiz is no #3 hitter. [Edit coming] Another potential change I've thought about making is taking out Scutaro and inserting Lowrie. I saw Buster Olney has Lowrie projected to start.

Lastly, honestly GMF...Pedroia, Crawford, Ellsbury have a ton of speed but so do Gardner, Granderson, and Cano. Slowly building my argument about how Yanks can match the Red Sox' speed and still has the better power hitters.

Oh I agree that they have great speed and that's excellent for tagging up, going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit, and beating the throws to the plate on base hits when they are on 2nd -- but they don't steal bases as often as Crawford and Ellsbury -- i was actually surprised because I had to look up Granderson and Gardner's stats because I originally was going to say their speeds were equal but when I saw that Gardner and Grandy actually don't steal a lot of bases I had to go back and edit my post before posting it.

 

[Giantmetfan07]

I'm not sure on this one.

Crawford doesn't want to bat lead-off, and I'm not sold on Pedroia flourishing as the lead-off man.
If Jeter has another year like 2009, I'd say that the number two spot is a wash.
Teixeira is still better than Youkilis (not by much).
I believe that A-Rod has a few more 30/100 seasons left in him. Gonzalez could struggle early on in his return to the AL.
Cano was an MVP candidate last year. Who knows how much Ortiz has left in the tank?

I'll post the rest later.

Which annoys me because The Red Sox are the ones throwing over $140M to his bat, fielding and speed. If I'm Terry Francona I'm telling him he's batting lead-off and he better get used to it.

 

[A.E]

Which annoys me because The Red Sox are the ones throwing over $140M to his bat, fielding and speed. If I'm Terry Francona I'm telling him he's batting lead-off and he better get used to it.

This principle is obvious however, the Red Sox need to protect their investment & I doubt they want to put Crawford in any position of potential failure. Its obvious Crawford lacks plate confidence as a leadoff hitter & I want no part of that if I am Terry Francona. But Crawford in the best position to succeed. You still have Ellsbury in the 9th spot so in a majority of innings, he's basically leading off too.

 

[Elite]

Crawford could be a great leadoff man, Pedroia is better suited to bat 2, but like I said...he doesn't like to be the leadoff hitter.



Good catch on the error I made in the batting order. This isn't 2003 and David Ortiz is no #3 hitter. [Edit coming] Another potential change I've thought about making is taking out Scutaro and inserting Lowrie. I saw Buster Olney has Lowrie projected to start.

Lastly, honestly GMF...Pedroia, Crawford, Ellsbury have a ton of speed but so do Gardner, Granderson, and Cano. Slowly building my argument about how Yanks can match the Red Sox' speed and still has the better power hitters.

Why the hell did you name Cano with Gardner and Granderson? Cano isn't fast, he's average.

Neither lineup will look like that. Gonzo is going to be hitting 3rd with Youk at cleanup. JD Drew will hit before Jed <Censored>ing Lowrie.

 

[A.E]

Why the hell did you name Cano with Gardner and Granderson? Cano isn't fast, he's average.

Neither lineup will look like that. Gonzo is going to be hitting 3rd with Youk at cleanup. JD Drew will hit before Jed <Censored>ing Lowrie.

Yeah, Cano is a bad name to throw into the speed conversation.

You also don't know what Boston's lineup is going to look like yet and neither do I. What I have posted is what Buster Olney projected & I think we can agree that he would know better than any of us would.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Yeah Drew will definitely hit before Lowrie. I am pretty confident. Gonzo will hit cleanup.

As for the lineups, they are fairly equal. Each clearly have depth. It will come down to the pitching, and not being a homer, but the Red Sox have the advantage there.

 

[A.E]

Yeah Drew will definitely hit before Lowrie. I am pretty confident. Gonzo will hit cleanup.

As for the lineups, they are fairly equal. Each clearly have depth. It will come down to the pitching, and not being a homer, but the Red Sox have the advantage there.

Yankees sign Cliff Lee & the win the pitching debate. Maybe once it happens the thread will go up. I would love to hear just how much people continue to overrated the Red Sox staff & fail to take bullpen into consideration.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Yeah I'll admit outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon, our bullpen is pretty <Censored>. However our actually staff would be right on par with New York's if they were to sign Lee. However the advantage does go to their pen.

 

[A.E]

Yeah I'll admit outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon, our bullpen is pretty <Censored>. However our actually staff would be right on par with New York's if they were to sign Lee. However the advantage does go to their pen.

Look at Papelbon's drop, his era over 3, and the fact that Red Sox were willing to dump him & chase after Mariano...

Buchholz is your ace right now, young, good stuff, but inexperienced in the postseason. Beckett is good, no longer great, Dice-K is an afterthought, and I honestly forget Lackey was even in Boston...which doesn't speak too highly of his impact. I'll take that rotation against our offense, any series, any week of the month. Beckett

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Lester???? He is our ace, Buchholz number 2.

 

[cruzg24]

Im very concerned about Texeirias batting average being only .256, Agons stats are pratically identical which would give me the nod towards the Red Sox in terms of the first baseman hitters. Agon's stats are going to be better because of a hitter friendly ballpark and the type of protection he is going to have in the lineup. He also wont have the pressure that he had with the Padres where pitchers can easily pitch around him. Mark Texieria also struggles early on every year. Advantage Red Sox in terms of 1st baseman

In terms of speed with Pedroia, Crawford, and Ellsbury are extremely fast on the basepaths. When healthy Jacoby has stolen 50 and 70 bases, Pedroia will get you around 20, and Crawford gives you 40+ bases. In comparison, Cano never has stolen 10, Granderson gives you about 15, and Gardner will give you around 50. Definitely the advantage goes to the Red Sox in terms of speed.

In terms of #2 and #3 hitters, obviously you want guys who hit for a good average and also have high walk rates which will get them on base for the cleanup hitter. Jeter had his lowest OPS EVER in his career. I dont think it was an aberration either because nothing will change next year, its not like he wasnt healthy last year or he was playing at a new ballpark. So the nod goes to Crawford right there. Youkilis hits for a higher average than Texeiria and Youkilis has had a higher OPS the past 3 years over Mark T's. Advantage Red Sox with #2 and #3 hitters, but if Jeter returns to his old form than I go with the Yankees.

In terms of power, this is pretty simple A-rod and company vs. Ortiz and company. A-rod has a proven track record but ironically, Ortiz outperformed A-rod last year with fewer at bats. Identical averages, but Ortiz had a higher OBP and SLG %. I expect A-rod to rebound this year and Ortiz is way too inconsistent to rely upon. Across the board the Yankees have better power numbers over the Red Sox. And they have a more HR friendly ballpark as well which will help. Advantage Yankees.

In terms of the lower half of the lineup, I look at the difference maker for that portion. Nick Swisher vs. JD Drew. Nick Swisher hits for higher average, power, and drives in more runs. I just like Swisher overall over Drew. Advantage Yankees.

In terms of catchers, I just dont like Jason Varitek and his "leadership" isnt as valuable as people say it is. Salty and Cervelli cancel each other out cuz they are just not that good. So it comes down to youth in Montero vs. Varitek. Ill take the fresher legs everytime. Montero will be a rookie next year and he is a highly touted prospect, he will be starting more games than Varitek. 21 HR's in AAA will translate very nicely in the bigs. Advantage Yankees.

Alright now finally, the #6 hitters. This one is really tough to call, Jorge is 39 years old right now, Jed Lowrie is 25 years old. Jed has a very small sample size to trully gauge what he will do next year and Jorge had a big down year, but the transition to DH will benefit him greatly. Jorge hasnt played a full year since 2007 which I dont like to see. The league will obviously adjust to Jed and how he plays so I dont expect him to match his K/BB ratio of 1. When push comes to shove Im gonna go with youth. Advantage Red Sox.

 

[A.E]

Lester???? He is our ace, Buchholz number 2.

God damnit I forgot about Lester.

hmm...I'll save this debate for the thread after we sign Lee.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Should be an interesting debate.

 

[Giantmetfan07]

Oh come on Boston's rotation is better, and still slightly better even if the Yankees sign Lee.

Lester
Buchholz
Beckett
Lackey
Dice-K

Sabathia
Lee
Hughes
Burnett
Ivan Nova

I'd give the edge to Boston. You know what you're getting out of Lackey and Dice-K's potential assuming he can stay healthy. You honestly don't know what the hell you'll get out of Hughes, Burnett and Nova. For Hughes, it's either first half of 2010 Hughes or the 2nd half of 2010 Hughes, and we all know which was better.

Also, you really gotta hope Pettitte comes back another year.

 

[cruzg24]

This was supposed to be a thread about batting lineups, not pitching...

 

[Giantmetfan07]

Hey i didnt start the pitching talk, I just spread it around.

Why is it an issue? Its just relative to the argument because of:

1. How many games these teams play each other
2. Lineups are versus Pitching. The lineups will face the opposing team's pitching. If one team has stronger pitching, there's a good chance one side's hitting will struggle against the pitching.

Yeah, i just pulled that 2nd one out of my ass but it works and fits in.

People are discussing baseball during the offseason -- doesn't matter in what form, as long as it's not bickering its okay.