Verlander fastest to 20 wins since 2002

[Rios15]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=Ai.YZL6M3ESXh5HN9BB61QARvLYF?gid=310827109

Sure, wins are overrated but it's not easy to get 20 wins nonetheless. Congrats to Verlander and this should help his Cy Young case. I really don't see anyone else coming close enough.

Edit: Title should be fastest!!

 

[elcheato]

Wins aren't overrated, they're a useless stat

 

[Rios15]

Wins aren't overrated, they're a useless stat

You really don't see mediocre pitchers winning 20 games though lol. 20-5 basically shows that he's putting his team in the position to win every night. Not saying you're wrong, but 20 wins doesn't come by easy.

 

[Pugz]

we're under .500 by a game, i believe when JV isnt pitching.

 

[elcheato]

That may be true but wins are something a pitcher has no control over unless they throw a complete game shut out. John Lackey, Ivan Nova and Max Scherzer are all top 10 in the AL in wins, and they aren't even close to that good.

 

[Pugz]

That may be true but wins are something a pitcher has no control over unless they throw a complete game shut out. John Lackey, Ivan Nova and Max Scherzer are all top 10 in the AL in wins, and they aren't even close to that good.

this.


though JV has lights out shit though. but the starting pitcher doesnt really control much once hes out or even while hes in if the offense isnt helping him.

 

[The Guid]

Yeah but neither of those guys usually last long into games. Guys like Weaver and Verlander average about 7+IP, which is definitely enough time to factor in a win.

 

[.infamous]

fixed the title for ya rios. Yea wins arent a great statistic to go by. But with most of Verlanders he does go late into games.

 

[Rios15]

That may be true but wins are something a pitcher has no control over unless they throw a complete game shut out. John Lackey, Ivan Nova and Max Scherzer are all top 10 in the AL in wins, and they aren't even close to that good.

I mean that why I said wins are overrated or otherwise like you said, useless, in the first place. If your team is giving you good run support every night, it's much easier to get the win as a pitcher. I remember when Roy Halladay got little to no run support here in Toronto lol. Now we're one of the best run scoring teams in the league lol.

To prove that wins are overrated... Derek Holland who has a 4.33 ERA this season gets up to 8.76 in run support lol.

In Verlander's case, he gets about 5.01 was is actually pretty good run support, but his ERA is less than more than half of that.

But yeah, all I can say is congrats to Verlander. He's had a great year and hopefully he'll finally get a well deserved Cy Young award for the first time in his career.

 

[elcheato]

Yeah but neither of those guys usually last long into games. Guys like Weaver and Verlander average about 7+IP, which is definitely enough time to factor in a win.

They do factor into wins, but what happens if the offense goes cold for the night when you're dealing, or someone blows it once you leave.. It just doesn't mean anything, even if you go deep into games.. King Felix had 19 wins in 2009 and only 13 in 2010, and he pitched better in 2010.

 

[Rios15]

Yeah but neither of those guys usually last long into games. Guys like Weaver and Verlander average about 7+IP, which is definitely enough time to factor in a win.

That a good way to look at it too. How many innings a pitcher averages can usually determine whether their wins were necessarily legit.

 

[The Guid]

They do factor into wins, but what happens if the offense goes cold for the night when you're dealing, or someone blows it once you leave.. It just doesn't mean anything, even if you go deep into games.. King Felix had 19 wins in 2009 and only 13 in 2010, and he pitched better in 2010.

Right. I'm just trying to defend against it being a "useless" stat.

 

[Lake Louise]

Happy to see JV get that 20. Seemed like he couldn't get over that hump, but he finally has with the solid year he's having. Although, today it was a team win. He had an off day, which have been rare this year, and the team picked him up. Had one of his shortest outings of the year as well.

 

[RipCity32]

Considering Verlander has won 20 of his 29 games pitched, I don't think that it is a useless stat.
When he is on the mound, it is almost always an automatic win.

Glad the ace finally got 20.

 

[Mexi]

it's a useless stat Rip
he had never won 20 in his career, but we all know he's one of the best pitchers in baseball and has been since he broke into the bigs

sure you guys have won 20 of his 29. thats great
but look at today. gave up 4 runs in 6 innings and got the W. 4 runs in 6 innings is pretty average
he could have very well gone 8 innings giving up 1 unearned run, and got a loss. 8 innings 1 run is spectacular

it's almost an automatic win because he's good at putting up minimal runs and because you guys have a great offense

look at Lincecum. having a great year. a 2.46 ERA, but is 12-10
Hiroki Kuroda on the dodgers has a 2.92 ERA, and he's 10-14


but hey. wins may be the most useless stat for a pitcher, but 20 wins still looks awesome
just adds to to his Cy Young resume' that he has locked up

 

[Elite]

it's a useless stat Rip
he had never won 20 in his career, but we all know he's one of the best pitchers in baseball and has been since he broke into the bigs

sure you guys have won 20 of his 29. thats great
but look at today. gave up 4 runs in 6 innings and got the W. 4 runs in 6 innings is pretty average
he could have very well gone 8 innings giving up 1 unearned run, and got a loss. 8 innings 1 run is spectacular

it's almost an automatic win because he's good at putting up minimal runs and because you guys have a great offense

look at Lincecum. having a great year. a 2.46 ERA, but is 12-10
Hiroki Kuroda on the dodgers has a 2.92 ERA, and he's 10-14


but hey. wins may be the most useless stat for a pitcher, but 20 wins still looks awesome
just adds to to his Cy Young resume' that he has locked up

He's been one of the best pitchers in the game this season, hasn't been in the past.

 

[spangar]

actually kinda thought wins mattered till i read through this thread... all the shit people are making makes a lot of sense...

especially:

he had never won 20 in his career, but we all know he's one of the best pitchers in baseball and has been since he broke into the bigs

sure you guys have won 20 of his 29. thats great
but look at today. gave up 4 runs in 6 innings and got the W. 4 runs in 6 innings is pretty average
he could have very well gone 8 innings giving up 1 unearned run, and got a loss. 8 innings 1 run is spectacular

it's almost an automatic win because he's good at putting up minimal runs and because you guys have a great offense

look at Lincecum. having a great year. a 2.46 ERA, but is 12-10
Hiroki Kuroda on the dodgers has a 2.92 ERA, and he's 10-14


but hey. wins may be the most useless stat for a pitcher, but 20 wins still looks awesome
just adds to to his Cy Young resume' that he has locked up

 

[RipCity32]

I'd agree with BC. JV was always a good pitcher, but up until this year I wouldn't have called him the best pitcher in baseball by a longshot.

And I would agree, wins are overrated. But the fact Verlander has a shot at 25 wins, I don't think in this case it is overrated. He pitches, we win games.

 

[Elite]

Before this season Verlander was essentially a two-pitch pitcher. He finally developed his other pitches, including that dirty change that he uses a lot now and that's why he's finally putting it all together. Having better command has helped as well.

 

[RipCity32]

Yeah, he has developed all his pitches nicely, and his command has been much better.

Another thing is, he isn't as caught up in blowing strikes by people, that used to just cause an immense amount of foul balls. Which in the end, would always bite him in the ass.