Time to dethrone Brady?

[Rush23]

Dethroning Tom Brady

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» Posted by Deviant on Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 4:58 pm

Tom Brady, the face of the New England Patriots’ franchise, will easily go down as the greatest Patriot to ever serve the franchise. He’s played in four Super Bowls, won three, hoisted two Super Bowl MVPs, named NFL MVP once, and holds quite a number of records all while donning the navy, silver, and red. His story is remarkable: a sixth-round draft pick in a seemingly weak draft for quarterbacks who rose to glory and fame when Drew Bledsoe went down in 2001.

He became an immortal figure right before our eyes as he put together an impressive 9-0 record in his first three postseasons as he won three immediate Super Bowls. And we all know of the moments that helped make him immortal (the Tuck Rule, Vinatieri’s FGs, etc). We all marked him as a future Hall of Famer and possibly one of the greatest of all time. The Patriots seemed on top of the world and Brady became the embodiment of “The American Dream”: a GQ cover boy with a stunning super model girlfriend and all the happiness and spoils of the world because he was a quarterback that no one could or would ever question.

Was. After going 9-0 in postseason and being placed on a similar level as rival Peyton Manning, Brady has only managed a 5-4 record in postseason play as well as his first ever first round exit in the postseason after an embarrassing performance against the Baltimore Ravens. While he did have what some would call “the best season compiled by an NFL player”, he failed to put it all together in the Super Bowl and the immortality of Tom Brady began to vanish with it. Tom Brady hasn’t even cracked on most lists for Top 5 quarterbacks of 2009 and finished with no votes in the All-Pro or MVP voting this season despite receiver Wes Welker gaining All-Pro honors. Which brings me to this question:

Is it time to dethrone Brady?

Well, let’s take some things into account before answering this question. Brady has come off of a nasty ACL/MCL tear after being hit by then Chiefs’ safety Bernard Pollard. However, after coming off of that injury, Brady had an above average season (that was certainly nothing like his 2007 season) that honestly didn’t look that much better than the season Matt Cassel had running the offense (other than the amount of sacks taken). The difference? Cassel and the Patriots finished 11-5 without a run to the postseason. Brady and the Patriots finished 10-6 and managed to get in. Perhaps it was the injury/surgery, but he didn’t look better as the season progressed.

Someone asked me if I thought Manning was still the great quarterback he was despite the surgery he underwent before the 2008 season. My answer is yes. I can’t question a quarterback who at the time was a two-time MVP, three-time 1st Team All-Pro, and winner of five consecutive 12+ win seasons. While he wasn’t great in the beginning of the season, his progression towards the end was incredible and it was clear that he was the league’s MVP and the reason that team is anywhere near that successful.

However, you can question a three-time Super Bowl winner. Hell, even Bradshaw won four Super Bowls, but no one in their right mind is considering him as one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. While Brady did come off of an injury, he didn’t look great in a number of games he played this season and seemed to only look invincible against weak secondaries. Towards the end of the season, Brady definitely regressed. Defenses understand what the Patriots are going to do and are no longer afraid of what was once the juggernaut offense of the Patriots.

Consider this as well: no one would say that the value of a wide receiver is greater than the quarterback if the quarterback is legitimately a great quarterback. Yet, it seems as if that is what’s happening in Brady’s case. How Wes Welker’s value is being made greater than Brady’s is beyond me, but it does bring up a great question about the offensive system that Belichick runs with Brady. The primary source of their offense comes off of Welker (Edelman) screens/short slot routes and the deep threat/height advantage of Moss. In comparison, the rest of their offense is totally off balance, something that wasn’t the case when Brady had “no-name receivers”. There isn’t another receiver on that Patriots’ offense that is responsible for 1/4 of what Moss or Welker does by themselves. There is no offense in the league that is so reliant on the production of two receivers like that in the NFL. None of the other top quarterbacks in the league rely so heavily upon two receivers like that either.

Take a good look at some of the quarterbacks in the quarterbacks in the NFL that are currently playing better than him: Peyton Manning, the now retired Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers.

Peyton Manning is clearly the greatest football player in the league right now and is undoubtedly the best quarterback playing the position coming of a his fourth NFL MVP and his second trip to the Super Bowl despite new coaching staff and “inexperienced receivers”. He has gone through three different coaches and yet he’s still clearly the commander and general of that team. Kurt Warner has quarterbacked two of the most prolific passing offenses in the game: “The Greatest Show on Turf” and “The Greatest Show in the Desert”. Three Super Bowl appearances with two different teams and a sure Hall of Fame career despite being plagued with injury. Drew Brees is the quarterback of one of the most dynamic offenses in the NFL and hoisted his first Super Bowl this year while continuing to prove himself as one of the league’s best despite his exit out of San Diego. Outside of the Super Bowls and postseason record, there’s not much different between the careers of these two.

Then, the two young guns. While some may argue he’s not proven yet, Aaron Rodgers is clearly one of the league’s best and built off of his impressive first year as a starter with an even better season. While he still has to get a playoff win under his belt, he looked marvelous in his first playoff game against the Cardinals that he came close to winning in overtime were it not for a missed throw to Greg Jennings. Philip Rivers has continually had the Chargers near Super Bowl success and is solidifying himself as one of the elite quarterbacks of the coming generation. He has played with a consistency that may very well rival Peyton Manning and may actually be the best quarterback out of the 2004 draft despite not winning the Super Bowls Eli and Roethlisberger have.

While people boast about Brady’s postseason accomplishments, in recent years, he hasn’t been better than any of the aforementioned quarterbacks:

Since 2005

* Tom Brady - (5-4) 205-of-333, 2157 yards, 17 TDs, 12 INTs | Super Bowl Appearance
* Peyton Manning – (6-4) 264-of-409, 2992 yards, 14 TDs, 11 INTs | Super Bowl Champion, Super Bowl MVP, Two Super Bowl Appearances
* Kurt Warner – (4-2) 138-of-194, 1731 yards, 16 TDs, 4 INTs | Super Bowl Appearance
* Drew Brees – (4-1) 119-of-183, 1329 yards, 11 TDs, 1 INTs | Super Bowl Champion, Super Bowl MVP, Super Bowl Appearance
* Philip Rivers – (3-4) 134-of-229, 1820 yards, 8 TDs, 9 INTs
* Aaron Rodgers – (0-1) 28-of-42, 423 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT

Certainly, there was something special about Tom Brady in first few years, which is why no one ever questioned him. The way I see it, Brady is a man in decline. Sure, you can pull up statistics showing his statistical progression (which actually isn’t that great other than the infamous 2007 season), but I certainly think it’s time to knock Brady off of the pedestal we’ve placed him on. He doesn’t throw the ball as far down field as the elites of the NFL and his resume of late is nothing special in comparison to other quarterbacks. Is it too early to just place him down like this without giving him an extra year because of the injury?

Perhaps, but it’s certainly time to start questioning. There’s no logical reason to keep him up in the Top Five of the NFL when there are quarterbacks who are currently playing at a higher or equal level as him. It wouldn’t shock me in the least if he’s no longer playing for New England and with another team in the next 3-5 years. Will he be a Hall of Famer? Definitely. However, Brady needs to become one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL again now before he can be claimed as one of the greatest of all time.

What are your thoughts on the article? Is it time to dethrone Tom Brady? I think he's been a great QB over the years but he's on the decline in my eyes. I've never really liked him but I've respected what he's done over the past several years.

 

[jarrod2323]

plz. quit posting links to articles on unaffiliated sites. I've asked nicely three times now.
You can post the article here if you like, like I re-edited your post as

 

[Oiler35]

It is time to take down Pretty Tom.

 

[TTN2810]

He may not be the best in the League now (or maybe he still is and just had an off year cause of his knee) but he still is the best ever. The offensive weapons he worked with while winning the Supers Bowls were horrific. He's definitely the best ever.

 

[Rondo The Prodigy]

He may not be the best in the League now (or maybe he still is and just had an off year cause of his knee) but he still is the best ever. The offensive weapons he worked with while winning the Supers Bowls were horrific. He's definitely the best ever.

You're 100% right. Everyone gets on how good Peyton Manning was, but he was brought into stardom. Number 1 draft pick, great offensive weapons around him with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and Edgerrin James.

 

[Mooche]

You're 100% right. Everyone gets on how good Peyton Manning was, but he was brought into stardom. Number 1 draft pick, great offensive weapons around him with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and Edgerrin James.

HAHAHAHAHA..

So let's just forget about the defense Tom Brady had during the stretch? If you want to compare the defenses they both have had, it's pretty dang drastic. As well, we all know, defense wins championships.

How does being picked first overall change the view that one should have of you being the best ever? I don't care if you were picked first with all the potential in the world, or the last pick in the draft period, it really doesn't matter - it's what you have become in your career.

Offensive weapons? So we just forget about Joe Montana being one of the best ever then, hey... He had Rice, Craig, Wilson etc. It's not like he played with scrubs is the point I am getting at. Well, unless you consider the best wide-out of all-time a scrub that is...

 

[TTN2810]

Right now, lets forget about defenses. Just focus on Brady, Manning and thier offenses.

For most of Manning's career he's had Harrison, Wayne, Dallas Clark. Manning is amazing, no doubt about it, but his talent is pretty great.

For most of Brady's career, he had Deion Branch, David Givens, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham. Now when Brady gets great targets like Mannings (Moss, Welker) he broke record after record. Manning's records.
Also, when Brady had Branch and Givens, he was making them look like all stars, which they weren't. Don't forget, Welker was a career backup before the Pats and Brady.

The way I see it, Brady makes everyone around him great. And Manning, well everyone around him is/was great.

The are both great, but I just think Brady is a bit better for those reasons.

Now the question is, if you give Manning Brady's defense, and Brady Manning's offense, who would be better. And that answer IMO is Brady. Just look at what he's done in the season where he's had talent. And right now, Manning's defense is just as good if not better as the Pats defense when they were in the Super Bowl. And look at the result.

Of the 3 Super Bowls, how many did Brady have to make the drive Manning couldn't? 1 or 2, I don't know exactly, but the point is, he did it when it needed to be done, in the toughest situation.

P.S. Sorry Mooche

 

[Mooche]

Alright. Your argument of Manning being "placed around" great talent all the time may have been valid before this year. You want to tell me that Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie are both stars? Um, no. Manning has made them look like stars so far in their young careers, completely making them over achieve. That argument is completely invalid now.

How can you compare having to drive down for the game winning field-goal, against the game winning touchdown? You simply can't. It's not even in the same LEAGUE of something to debate. What Big Ben did against the Cardinals, that was damn impressive. Driving down to get the field-goal is impressive, no kidding - but it's the same? Not even close. As well, in one of his Super Bowl's Manning did not have to drive down for the field-goal, if you remember.

Plugging in either one to the respective systems is not really that fair. As much as saying that Manning has the WAY better offense at this point is time isn't. You want to tell me that Moss and Welker are average receivers? They aren't. You said clearly that Brady has done a lot when he had talent around him, which is fair, he did. But comparing the offenses isn't so cut and dry.

Speaking on the topic of Brady's record... Throwing the ball when you are up by 30 points or so in the 4th against the Redskins, is pretty much a joke. Go back, look at Manning's stats BEFORE he was pulled out of games when they were blowouts (and before he rested the last game). It's a joke how Brady beat that record piling on and lacing up his stats in meaningless points in the games.

 

[TTN2810]

Dude, they are getting played to play football, and they aren't 10. Why can't people handle them staying in the game they love, and are amazing at. Who cares if they run up the score? It's not like they are gonna hurt the other teams feelings. And they were using it to practise stuff they wouldn't normally do in games. But yeah, Collie isnt a star, and he isn't playing like one though. He's pretty bad. But Garcon is very good. He's a great route runner, great YAC, speed. He would be good anywhere.

And about the game winning drive, Brady did do that against the Giants. He drove them down the field, got the TD to go up 17-14 or whatever, and their defense let them down. So you cannot say that Brady couln't make that drive, because he did, and he did it against a better defense.

 

[Mooche]

Dude, they are getting played to play football, and they aren't 10. Why can't people handle them staying in the game they love, and are amazing at. Who cares if they run up the score? It's not like they are gonna hurt the other teams feelings. But yeah, Collie isnt a star, and he isn't playing like one though. He's pretty bad. But Garcon is very good. He's a great route runner, great YAC, speed. He would be good anywhere.

And about the game winning drive, Brady did do that against the Giants. He drove them down the field, got the TD to go up 17-14 or whatever, and their defense let them down. So you cannot say that Brady couln't make that drive, because he did, and he did it against a better defense.

How does getting played to pay football even become relevant in this debate? It doesn't take away the fact the stats were put up in really pointless parts of the game - compared to when Manning did it all the time.

Collie actually played darn good, 100+ plus yards in the playoffs on the Jets isn't that bad... Considering he made a TON of big plays that game.

Garcon a good route runner? Have you seen him play? He's not a good route runner yet, at all. That's his weakness. Along with his hands. He needs to become more crisp - that comes with time in the NFL.

Brady also did absolutely nothing that game before hand - do you remember him laughing and chuckling over Burress' comment that they score 17 points? He just laughed at the reporter. Well. Wrong Tommy.

 

[TTN2810]

How does getting played to pay football even become relevant in this debate? It doesn't take away the fact the stats were put up in really pointless parts of the game - compared to when Manning did it all the time.

Collie actually played darn good, 200+ plus yards in the playoffs on the Jets isn't that bad... Considering he made a TON of big plays that game.

Garcon a good route runner? Have you seen him play? He's not a good route runner yet, at all. That's his weakness. Along with his hands. He needs to become more crisp - that comes with time in the NFL.

Brady also did absolutely nothing that game before hand - do you remember him laughing and chuckling over Burress' comment that they score 17 points? He just laughed at the reporter. Well. Wrong Tommy.

Collie just had to run 40 yards, and Manning threw it perfectly in his arms. This happened a few times.

And every catch I see Garcon get is a double move where he undresses the defender.

And Brady did lots in that Super Bowl. His O-Line let him down. He had 1 second to drop back, read the defense and throw it accuratly to the WR. Sounds pretty tough eh? He did everything he could.

And yeah Brady's stats at that point of the game were pointless, but he isn't gonna just sit on the bench for the whole 2nd half of the game just becuase he's too good for the defense. That's like Kobe Bryant saying, "Oh I already have 50 points. I guess I should stop now so I don't hurt my opponents feelings." That's unrealistic.

 

[Blake]

...This topic.

When you look at it, Brady and Manning both succeed with two "defensive" minded head-coaches.

We all know that they had great offensive coordinators.

The fact of the matter is, how do we know that Wayne, Harrison, and Clark would suck without Manning?

We don't and they're getting to old to find out.

They're both great quarterback, that's a fact; however, three-four years ago I'd of said Brady, easily.

Now? I'll say Brees.

That's right, Brees.

That mother-<Censored> has been lighting <Censored> up.

I was never a fan of Manning, he went to UT, he had Dungy, and I hate his brother.

Bad reasons not to like a guy, but I'll stand with that.

All three of those guys are great.

However, no one is better than Joe Montana, no one.

 

[TTN2810]

Brees is obviously the best NOW. But at their bests, Brady.

 

[Blake]

As much <Censored> as I'm gonna catch, I can agree with that.

But not by much.

 

[Mooche]

Collie just had to run 40 yards, and Manning threw it perfectly in his arms. This happened a few times.

And every catch I see Garcon get is a double move where he undresses the defender.

And Brady did lots in that Super Bowl. His O-Line let him down. He had 1 second to drop back, read the defense and throw it accuratly to the WR. Sounds pretty tough eh? He did everything he could.

And yeah Brady's stats at that point of the game were pointless, but he isn't gonna just sit on the bench for the whole 2nd half of the game just becuase he's too good for the defense. That's like Kobe Bryant saying, "Oh I already have 50 points. I guess I should stop now so I don't hurt my opponents feelings." That's unrealistic.

You seem to be referring to one pass, where Manning did PERFECTLY throw it. How about the other one where he dove back, across his body, in the endzone? That wasn't exactly a good throw. Like I said earlier, Manning is making these kids, but that doesn't remove the fact Collie played pretty solid.

Guess you have missed the plays where Garcon has ran bad routes, almost leading to picks or picks - or in the Super Bowl when he made that critical drop. I don't wanna point the kid out. But that was a HUGE play that broke us down.

Sounds like Peyton against Pittsburgh in 05... sacked 5 times. That's not his fault? Yet, he is called a "choker" for that game. Well how much time do you think he had to throw the ball there? Somewhat tough, too, eh....

Kobe Bryant in the NBA and Tom Brady in the NFL is completely different. You want to compare two different sports? Alright. I guess it's fair for me to realize all the times in other sports, the teams show class and do not run up the score and/or slow down when the game is in reach. Which the Colts did when Manning set the record - unlike the Patriots. You honestly want to say they were in the right for slaughtering a Washington team when it was over? What good is that for you? You have the division in hand, risking injuries doesn't make any sense either. Hence why the Colts and Manning didn't do it that year he had the record in hand.

 

[TTN2810]

As much <Censored> as I'm gonna catch, I can agree with that.

But not by much.

Very true. Brees is pretty amazing, especially being like 5'11.

 

[Mooche]

Drew Brees - another great quarterback. No doubt about it, dammit. However, you want to use the argument that somebody contributed earlier about Manning, "always playing around talent". I guess we should totally dismiss what Brees has done, then. (Pierre Thomas, Marques Colston, Reggie Bush etc.)

 

[TTN2810]

He has a very good backfield, but I don't think his WR's are the best. Yes, Colston in good, but Brees makes his so much better. Along with Meachem and Henderson and Moore. Brees throws these guys open like crazy.