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#21 OFFLINE   PWNdroia

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

 
Good joke. I almost responded, but realized it must be sarcasm.
 
 
 
 
 
I agree, but I dont think it matters much. He is in the Hall of he Very Good in the end. 
 
 
Curt Schilling is paying for being an A-hole. I'm fine with it. People can whine about all the bad people in the Hall all they want, but that's in the past. Right now, voters have their voice, and they are being heard. He will be a VC pick if nothing else. He's just gonna have to wait.
 
 
 
I dont think they get in. Again, they are definitely being punished by the voters. It will be interesting to see what the VC does with them. They belong. I would vote for them, but I'm just a school teacher. What do I know?

My point is that Schilling should get higher than Bonds or Clemens. If we pick him out for having a bad attitude, then we can just mark everyone off the list.

The logic behind the voters are so flawed.
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#22 OFFLINE   GMF1991

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:05 PM

Good joke. I almost responded, but realized it must be sarcasm.

 

 

My comment was really more about accolades. Santana had 2 cy young awards and was arguably the best pitcher in baseball for 4 or 5 years. Scott Rolen has some Golden Globes and a Rookie of the Year. Baffling he got more votes. 


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#23 OFFLINE   CameronCrazy06

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:29 PM

The more I think about it, I'm not really okay with Hoffman in.


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CC's career is done here. the kid takes NO input at all and everything he does is "top secret". shit, he doesnt even post here since his whole fbb shit. fuck him


#24 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:07 PM

you are way off on number of relievers in the Hall.  Hoffman is #6

 

I was going off of guys who were RP their entire careers...so i was not way off. Hoffman is #2 and Mo will be #3. 

 

 

looking back, I thought that Rollie spent more time as a SP....he was a RP for 90% of his innings. So i guess I could include him in he list as well


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#25 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:27 PM

The more I think about it, I'm not really okay with Hoffman in.

 

 

It's an interesting case. To me, the closers have the same issue as the DH. It's a specialized position. 

 

I tend to believe that the DH and closer role are specialized positions and should not be penalized. These guys worked their butts off and deserve recognition just the same. We just need a standard to go by. The thing I find weird is that by almost every pitching metric Wagner is head and shoulders above all of them. Yet he cant get any votes. It's interesting. 


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#26 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:32 PM

 

 

My comment was really more about accolades. Santana had 2 cy young awards and was arguably the best pitcher in baseball for 4 or 5 years. Scott Rolen has some Golden Globes and a Rookie of the Year. Baffling he got more votes. 

 

 

I am totally baffled too. I just want some consistency out of the voters, and we aren't seeing that at all. Media favorites are getting votes by the buckets, yet you have guys who are being shut out for no apparent reason. If Omar Vizquel's defense was good enough to garner 30-something percent of the vote, then Rolen's should have gotten him at least that. And Rolen could actually hit!!! Vizquel was an offensive liability 90% of his career. His defense was not enough to make up for that IMO. The Wizard isn't a good comp, b/c Ozzie at least could handle the bat. Omar was an easy-out for most of his career. It suppressed his WAR o a point where Ozzie doesnt belong with the other SS's in the Hall. 

 

BUT!!!! If you want to vote in Omar, then that's fine. You better vote for Rolen too. He had the best defense of any 3B in his era (my opinion). He also hit quite a few HR's and drove in a bunch of runs. Just be consistent folks!!! That's all I am asking. 


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#27 OFFLINE   bosoxlover12

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:37 PM

 

 

My comment was really more about accolades. Santana had 2 cy young awards and was arguably the best pitcher in baseball for 4 or 5 years. Scott Rolen has some Golden Globes and a Rookie of the Year. Baffling he got more votes. 

golden-globes-trophy-billboard-1548.jpg


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#28 OFFLINE   CameronCrazy06

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:14 PM

 
 
It's an interesting case. To me, the closers have the same issue as the DH. It's a specialized position. 
 
I tend to believe that the DH and closer role are specialized positions and should not be penalized. These guys worked their butts off and deserve recognition just the same. We just need a standard to go by. The thing I find weird is that by almost every pitching metric Wagner is head and shoulders above all of them. Yet he cant get any votes. It's interesting. 

Heads and shoulders above all of them? No. Hes pretty comparable to Hoffman though
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CC's career is done here. the kid takes NO input at all and everything he does is "top secret". shit, he doesnt even post here since his whole fbb shit. fuck him


#29 OFFLINE   GMF1991

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:22 PM


I just noticed I wrote globes instead of gloves and thought "hope no one saw that yep someone saw that".
 
 
My comment was really more about accolades. Santana had 2 cy young awards and was arguably the best pitcher in baseball for 4 or 5 years. Scott Rolen has some Golden Globes and a Rookie of the Year. Baffling he got more votes. 

golden-globes-trophy-billboard-1548.jpg

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#30 OFFLINE   elcheato

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

Billy Wagner has a better Hall of Fame case than Hoffman, but neither should be in


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#31 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:28 PM

Heads and shoulders above all of them? No. Hes pretty comparable to Hoffman though

Oooh!!! Time for mystery pitcher game!!!! Without too much time, I'll put together a little something. Stats like WAR can be misleading due to longevity. Also will leave out Saves since it will make it obvious. 

 

Pitcher A: 2.83 ERA, 24.6 WAR, 136 ERA+, 76% LOB

Pitcher B: 2.31 ERA, 28.1 WAR, 187 ERA+, 82% LOB

Pitcher C: 2.87 ERA, 28.4 WAR, 141 ERA+, 76.7% LOB

Pitcher D: 3.25 ERA, 26.1 WAR, 120 ERA+, 75.8% LOB

 

For Reference, Mo is: 2.21 ERA, 57 WAR, 205 ERA+, 80.5% LOB

 

One of those pitchers is clearly better than the rest. And he happens to be the only one not in the Hall now...


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#32 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:32 PM

Billy Wagner has a better Hall of Fame case than Hoffman, but neither should be in

 

I can respect that opinion under the assumption that you feel like Sutter, Fingers, and Goose don't belong either...

 

My follow-up is how do you feel about Marion Rivera getting in??


Edited by Coach, 25 January 2018 - 08:32 PM.

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#33 OFFLINE   CameronCrazy06

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:36 PM

Guerrero going in as an angel makes me upset
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CC's career is done here. the kid takes NO input at all and everything he does is "top secret". shit, he doesnt even post here since his whole fbb shit. fuck him


#34 OFFLINE   GMF1991

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:40 AM

I'm surprised he made that choice.
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#35 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:41 AM

Guerrero going in as an angel makes me upset


Hasnt heard that one. Thats interesting. The modern FA era has made some of these guys have to make tough decisions. I dont imagine it was an easy one for Vlad
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#36 OFFLINE   AE.

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:38 AM

Schilling and Wagner are getting fucked on this and its for no other reason than terrible relationships with the very writers who hold the ballots. I mean, Schilling has 11 wins and a sub 2.3 ERA in the postseason.

And I think Vlad is going in as an Angel because hes going to be their first. Its also where he won a ring and became recognized as a superstar.
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#37 OFFLINE   Coach

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:44 AM

Schilling and Wagner are getting fucked on this and its for no other reason than terrible relationships with the very writers who hold the ballots. I mean, Schilling has 11 wins and a sub 2.3 ERA in the postseason.

And I think Vlad is going in as an Angel because hes going to be their first. Its also where he won a ring and became recognized as a superstar.

 

He actually didn't win a ring there. I thought the same for a second, but checked it out. He signed in 2004, and they won it in 2002. 

 

 

Being the first Angel is a good reason to do it though. Makes a little more sense.


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#38 OFFLINE   catman

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:00 AM

I think the writers missed the boat with Johan Santana dropping off the ballot after 1 year.  He will, however, go into the Twins Hall of Fame and his jersey #57 will be retired.  It always looked strange on the other guys that wore it anyway.

Jim Thome is one of the great characters in baseball history.  I'm glad to see him get all the support he got.  My wife and I were going to go to Cooperstown for his induction, but now that she is gone, I don't think I'll make it.  I was there for Bert Blyleven's induction.

I digress.  My favorite Thome moment was when he played for the Twins.  They were playing the White Sox and he was hitting against Matt Thornton in extra innings.  My wife said "I hope he can hit the ball." (Thornton was pretty good in 2010).  He hit the top of the flag pole on the right field pavilion and I said "was that good enough?"


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#39 OFFLINE   GMF1991

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

Schilling and Wagner are getting fucked on this and its for no other reason than terrible relationships with the very writers who hold the ballots. I mean, Schilling has 11 wins and a sub 2.3 ERA in the postseason.

And I think Vlad is going in as an Angel because hes going to be their first. Its also where he won a ring and became recognized as a superstar.


Also the MVP.
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#40 ONLINE   brett05

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:16 PM

Let's compare him to a guy most people consider one of the best (if not the best) third basemen of all time, Mike Schmidt.

 

.281 BA, .855 OPS, 316 HR, 1287 RBI, 0 MVP, 8 GG, 1 SS, 70.0 WAR*

.267 BA, .908 OPS, 548 HR, 1595 RBI, 3 MVP, 12 GG, 6 SS, 106.5 WAR*

 

* from baseball-ref so sketchy. But still, there's no comparison there. He's not on that level, not even close. He might be a top 10 third basemen of all time, but he's not in the discussion for #1.

Never made the argument for #1.  Way to strawman.  I said he's among the alltime greats at the position.  And hey look, top 10 would be among the all time greats.


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